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Enon's avatar

A utopian experiment that succeeded will not be recognized as utopian, for instance the Society of Friends, or formerly other names such as the Friends of the Inner Light of Truth, better known as Quakers. Few among them know how much of today's world came from the Quakers. E.g.: Barclays, Lloyds, Cadbury, most of the iron for the early industrial revolution, railroads, cast steel, fixed-price shops, the American-style nuclear family, Pennsylvania, Bryn Mawr , Haverford, Swarthmore, Johns Hopkins, Cornell, Dalton's atomic theory of chemistry, Young's proof of the wave theory of light, etc. etc. (But Quakers have nothing to do with the oatmeal brand, nor any historical link to the Amish.)

Formerly an endogamous group from the mid-1600s to around 1900, I estimate there were fewer than half a million silent-meeting Quakers in the US and Britain in history, with about 50,000 or so today, of whom only a very small fraction have long Quaker ancestry, as my family does. Virtually all of them now are converts (“convinced” Friends, rather than “birthright”); the sect had just about died out when the Quakers' automatic exemption from the the Vietnam War draft attracted a huge influx of Boomers. Today the silent-meeting Quakers are ultra-liberal clubs, defined mostly by extreme political correctness. It's ironic, because the Quakers were patient zero of the Progressive pandemic in the 19th century, but have been repeatedly reinfected by mutated strains of the woke mind virus.

I think the decline decline came from dropping endogamy and lowering membership requirements. That is also the problem for any future utopian experiment -- community, utopian or otherwise, is impossible without the ability to ward off incompatible types of people.

I spent the summer of '88, aged 16, as a part-time cowherd in the tiny, remote Quaker colony of Monteverde, in the Costa Rican Cloud forest. Utopia is possible.

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Performative Bafflement's avatar

I think the two main reasons to be skeptical that utopias are possible now are:

1) Lots of people have tried and failed, and those failures are recent enough to be documented (with your post here an example of that documentation)

2) Governments are bigger, more capable, and more willing and able to limit technologically mediated change that could help create a utopia

Per 2, I can create a utopia - we need to legalize gengineering somewhere, and let market forces act so that people can pay to have much smarter, healthier, happier, and more attractive kids. When parents can choose the level of neuroticism (low), IQ (high), conscientiousness (high), etc their kids will have, those kids will be able to create better and more utopian societies together than their parents, and provided gengineering capabilities keep increasing, that can be a virtuous spiral.

But gengineering isn't legal anywhere. And it likely won't be legal anywhere for a good amount of time, and if it were legal somewhere, odds are enough people in other countries would agitate about it and try to make it illegal, via soft or hard power. Crabs in a bucket.

Similarly, if you let people sort themselves by things other than wealth and income. Take the people in the top decile of combined IQ, capability, conscientiousness, and mental health and let them form their own society and government. They'll get closer than anyone else to creating a better and more utopian society over time - but wait, we can't do that. There's no process to do it, it's called "secession" and it's a dirty word to all governments everywhere. That top decile pays a lot of taxes, after all. Also, it's probably not diverse or inclusive enough, so they'll all get cancelled or embargoed by trade partners or whatever, and this is also why we can't have tracking by ability in schools in the US.

Back in 18th-19th century times, the federal government was much weaker. Local governments were much weaker. You had a credible means to create a mini society that followed different rules, both legally and socially. You can't do any of that now.

If we did have some means to make more federated enclaves of different legal schemes, then we could have the requisite sorting by ability and inclination, and sorting by technologically-allowed-and-mediated change like gengineering, to actually try to do something different and better. But good luck convincing current governments to give up the cream of their current tax-paying crop and let them go form weird Prospera-like enclaves and have super-babies together.

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